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Java Programming [Archive] - SDK install is stupid
This topic has 12 replies on 1 page.

Posts:133
Registered: 11/11/03
SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 7:23 AM



 
Can anyone tell me why when you install the SDK on windoze you end up with the JRE in 3 different places. You find java.exe etc in ...\j2sdkXXX\bin, ...\j2sdkXXX\jre\bin and ...\Program Files\Java\j2sdkXXX\bin. Why? I know what the SDK bin dir has development tools in it as well but what's the point in having a JRE sub dir AND a JRE dir under program files?
 

Posts:13,769
Registered: 00-11-29
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 7:38 AM (reply 1 of 12)



 
I'm with you on this. I wish you could just download the libraries and JRE without an install. The install seems to only cause problems.
 

Posts:133
Registered: 11/11/03
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 7:43 AM (reply 2 of 12)



 
I'm with you on this. I wish you could just download
the libraries and JRE without an install. The install
seems to only cause problems.

Especially if, for example, you want to take a look at 1.5. You install the SDK and it becomes your default JRE. So you basically have to uninstall it again and just leave the SDK directory behind.
 

Posts:11,200
Registered: 7/22/99
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 8:05 AM (reply 3 of 12)



 
The SDK installer installs only two JREs on your computer: a public and a private. The public one installed in "Program Files" is what is normally used to run the Java plugin in your browser, web start applications, executable jar files, and so on. The private one installed in sdk/jre is used internally by the SDK (the programs in sdk/bin call the programs in sdk/jre/bin). It's not clear to me why one JRE is not enough though...

While there are only two JREs, the number of java.exes installed is actually four.
 

Posts:3,055
Registered: 18/06/98
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 8:16 AM (reply 4 of 12)



 
Beware! Excessive exposure to Windows can make you dumb! (Well, I pass 99.999% of my time staring to a Windows machine as well, so I can classify me as a ...)

The install is stupid and adding to it, it blindly follows the requirement of installing things in a directory whose name usually has spaces in it.
(For instance, "C:\Program Files" in English Windows machines and "C:\Arquivos de Programas" in Brazilian Portuguese machines - interestingly, Iberian Portuguese machines have a no-nonsense name for the directory: "C:\Programas" that is simpler, has the same meaning, and has no spaces).

I understand that installing things in "C:\Program Files" is a requirement to get the "Designed for Windows" logo in your software boxes, but I would like that Sun could dispense it. (Well, now Sun and Microsoft are not litigating anymore, so you probably will can buy a shrink-wrapped box with "Java SDK 5.1: Designed for Windows 2005" in the near future...)

Due to the use of Microsoft Installer, it leaves in my <profile>\Application Data{<guid>} that is the complete .msi file, that can amount to tens of megabytes. I know that it is needed for uninstallation, but it is an unexpected waste of disk space.
 

Posts:37,103
Registered: 3/30/99
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 9:16 AM (reply 5 of 12)



 
Beware! Excessive exposure to Windows can make you
dumb! (Well, I pass 99.999% of my time staring to a
Windows machine as well, so I can classify me as a

Oh, so that's the mythical "five nines" that M$ used to brag about.
 

Posts:3,534
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 9:34 AM (reply 6 of 12)



 
Oh, so that's the mythical "five nines" that M$
used to brag about.

Actually the "Mythial Five Nines" is their enterprise model and I believe it can still be found in the MSDN and TechNet publication. You can run their products 9 hours a day for 5 days straight. At the end of 9 hour days you need to bounce the servers or do your scheduled mainenance with includes bouncing the servers at least once. MS actually is fairly well minded as long as you adhier to this model under moderately heavy transaction loads.

We used to have to boot about 2 times a day under high load conditions, but our Sys Admin didn't like to do that, so things kept breaking 1 to 2 times a week because he wouldn't bounce the servers. When he went on vacation or away for training we'd go on the bounce at least once a day scenarios and everything worked great. We could never get the boss to send the Sys Admin on a perminent vacation though and he's still there watching the enterprise die 1 or 2 times a week becasue he won't bounce the servers.
 

Posts:1,657
Registered: 1/8/98
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 23, 2004 7:43 PM (reply 7 of 12)



 
That ain't "five nines" - the rest of the world defines it as continuous operation. Bouncing servers isn't "continuous operation," especially after only 9 hours!
 

Posts:3,534
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 26, 2004 7:54 AM (reply 8 of 12)



 
That ain't "five nines" - the rest of the world
defines it as continuous operation. Bouncing
servers isn't "continuous operation," especially after
only 9 hours!

Well if you want true Enterprise Solutions or Tier One operations, youll need to enter a more solid environment like Linux, Unix, Solaris...

But if you can run the Five Nines model as described by MS's doc's, then the MS environment will work fairly well for you.
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 27, 2004 12:49 AM (reply 9 of 12)



 
Can anyone tell me why when you install the SDK on
windoze you end up with the JRE in 3 different places.
You find java.exe etc in ...\j2sdkXXX\bin,
...\j2sdkXXX\jre\bin and ...\Program
Files\Java\j2sdkXXX\bin. Why? I know what the SDK bin
dir has development tools in it as well but what's the
point in having a JRE sub dir AND a JRE dir under
program files?

It's you who are stupid. Learn the name of your operating system first, maybe you'll be able to use that as a start to learn some more.
 

Posts:11,200
Registered: 7/22/99
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 27, 2004 1:13 AM (reply 10 of 12)



 
It's you who are stupid.

Hey! There's no reason to start to insult strangers.
 

Posts:2,909
Registered: 13.8.2003
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 27, 2004 1:16 AM (reply 11 of 12)



 
There's always a reason to start to insult strangers. It's better than insulting people you know, 'cos they might know where you live...
 

Posts:133
Registered: 11/11/03
Re: SDK install is stupid  
Jul 27, 2004 2:24 AM (reply 12 of 12)



 
It's you who are stupid. Learn the name of your
operating system first, maybe you'll be able to use
that as a start to learn some more.

There is an old English saying about people in glass houses. *******.
 
This topic has 12 replies on 1 page.