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Java Programming [Archive] - Meaning of Java Open Source??
This topic has 11 replies on 1 page.

Posts:112
Registered: 8/9/01
Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 18, 2004 9:23 PM



 
I have heard that Sun may open source Java. I don't quite understand what does it mean
because when we install Java SDK, we get the source code of library too. I tried
to search more info. on Sun's site, but unsuccessful.

Please advise, and share some related pointers. thanks!!
 

Posts:2,909
Registered: 13.8.2003
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 18, 2004 10:41 PM (reply 1 of 11)



 
It has to do with licenses. Currently you're not allowed to make modifications to Java, if Java is GPL'd (a license) you could basically do a whole lot more with it. Most people are unaffected by this however, since not many seem to be wanting to create their own Java version. The jury's still out on whether open sourcing Java is a good idea or not so time will tell...
 

Posts:11,200
Registered: 7/22/99
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 12:40 AM (reply 2 of 11)



 
(If Sun makes Java open source the license is likely not going to be GPL because GPL is a very restrictive license.)

Sure, you get the source code of some of the library classes now, but that doesn't cover the full source code for the SDK. You don't get the source code for classses the SDK uses internally (the sun.* packages, this includes the Java compiler, other tools, and utility classes), the implementations of native methods, or the source code of the virtual machine...
 

Posts:2,909
Registered: 13.8.2003
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 1:34 AM (reply 3 of 11)



 
or the source code of the virtual machine...

That's available somewhere, since I've dug it up once already for someone who was doubting it.
 

Posts:5,904
Registered: 04/03/99
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 1:46 AM (reply 4 of 11)



 
http://wwws.sun.com/software/communitysource/hotspot/download.html
 

Posts:4,906
Registered: 23/07/02
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 4:47 AM (reply 5 of 11)



 
Most people are unaffected by this however, since not many seem to be wanting to create their own Java version.

I dunno. Look at the length we've waited for some bugs to be fixed, and for some popular RFEs. I can see some people putting a bit of time into things like generified Swing.
 

Posts:5,904
Registered: 04/03/99
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 4:51 AM (reply 6 of 11)



 

Quite. For example:

http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4057701

It's number 5 on the top 25 RFEs with over 500 votes, it could take anything between twenty and thirty minutes to fix, and it's coming along nicely after its 7th birthday.

Dave.
 

Posts:48
Registered: 6/6/03
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 19, 2004 1:52 PM (reply 7 of 11)



 
Java Open Source can also mean that we will more than 5000 (simple fill a number here) Java versions flowing around. Probably with 3 major Java versions such as:
Sun Java
IBM Java
MS Java

You name it. Of course all these versions will no be compatable to each other.

This way, we will create a market for Java integration until people get bored enough to switch to dot.whatsoever.
 

Posts:5,904
Registered: 04/03/99
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 20, 2004 1:35 AM (reply 8 of 11)



 

Really ? Like the 5000 versions of Darwin ?

I'm no particular fan of the idea of open sourcing Java, but it has some attractions, and could certainly be managed intelligently.

At a very minimum, they own the rights to the Java trademark, so that would be:

Sun Java(tm)
IBM Java(tm) (Licensed)
MS J#

God, what a nightmare. Good thing that can't happen, eh ?

Most of the proponents of open sourcing Java seem to come from the "I want it, therefore it should happen" or the "software should be free" camps, which elicit zero sympathy from me, but it doesn't automatically make it a terrible idea from Sun's point of view, which is the only one that actually has any bearing on this.

Dave.
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 20, 2004 6:52 AM (reply 9 of 11)



 
Java Open Source can also mean that we will more than
5000 (simple fill a number here) Java versions flowing
around. Probably with 3 major Java versions such as:
Sun Java
IBM Java
MS Java
Far more. There's about 3 Linux distributions (all with at least some incompatibilities with others) introduced per day on average.
That's a thousand a year.
Expect a concerted effort on the part of the /. kiddos (p)(c)(r)tm, patent pending crowd to completely kill off the Java platform by creating a multitude of mutually exclusive JVMs.
After all, that's the entire goal they (and their god ESR) have in wanting Java open sourced, the destruction of the platform in favour of Perl and PHP.

You name it. Of course all these versions will no be
compatable to each other.
Of course, that's the point...
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 20, 2004 6:55 AM (reply 10 of 11)



 

Quite. For example:

http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4057
01

It's number 5 on the top 25 RFEs with over 500 votes,
it could take anything between twenty and thirty
minutes to fix, and it's coming along nicely after its
7th birthday.

Dave.

So submit a JSR with the new functionality...
Of course 500 people out of the millions writing Java is the voice of the community...
 

Posts:5,904
Registered: 04/03/99
Re: Meaning of Java Open Source??  
Jul 20, 2004 7:42 AM (reply 11 of 11)



 

So submit a JSR with the new functionality...

Submit a JSR to fix a bug/feature enhancement that requires a few lines of code ? Doesn't that seem a little disproportionate to you ? The particular problem with that RFE is that it's wrapped up in an existing JSR anyway, whose deadline has slipped into the next version.

The advantage Open Source does have over something like the JCP is timeliness. I don't consider it desirable to open source Java, but nor am I blind to the failings of the existing approach. Not that my opinion or yours matter, since Sun will quite rightly do whatever they consider to be to their best advantage.

Of course 500 people out of the millions writing Java
is the voice of the community...

By which logic, only 1307 want generics.

Dave.
 
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