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Java Programming [Archive] - Intel slower than AMD??
This topic has 12 replies on 1 page.

Posts:3
Registered: 6/10/04
Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 10, 2004 9:24 AM



 
We have run into a problem with a few of our clients running Intel Pentium 4 (no hyperthreading) processors. Our web application under tomcat runs 20 - 30% slower on Intel (benchmarks scores are available). Our shop uses AMD Athlon processors and we have no performance problems at all.

We have had client come to our shop to verify that the application is indeed faster here and they always say that it is significantly faster.

We have developed benchmarks for certain parts of our system (formula calculation, and page rendering) and run themmon and AMD 2500+ and and Intel P4 2.4 Ghz . According to all industry standard (SiSoft Sandra, etc) benchmarks we have come across, these machine should perform roughly the same, with the AMD performing slightly (5-10%) above the Intel.

Has anyone come across this problem before?? Are there certain operations or combinations of operations in Java that are significantly slower on the Intel??

We are seeing this on both the Client and Server VMs. All machines are running JDK 1.4.2_04 on Windows XP SP 1.
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 12:26 AM (reply 1 of 12)



 
In my experience it's the exact opposite...
Intel machines typically outperform AMD machines which are otherwise similar.

Most likely the slow Intel based machines have other limiting factors which are not present in your faster AMD based machines.
Examples include slow harddrives, slower memory and motherboard busses, etc. etc.
Most sales brochures don't mention these, showing only glowing numbers of CPU speed and amounts of RAM and harddisk space.
Then there's the dual standards used by many "benchmarks", where Celerons are compared with highend AMDs and then the Celerons are called P4 in the result in order to make AMD look good.

And don't even get started on benchmarking software optimised to favour one brand of CPU over another...
 

Posts:6,487
Registered: 5/5/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 2:18 AM (reply 2 of 12)



 
The architectures of the AMD and Intel are different. Most benchmarks try to tell you how the performance of a generic application would behave. For a specific application, you may find one or the other is faster.
Comparing CPU speeds is not very useful as you never run these application on just the CPU (you need a system). What would be a little more useful is to compare system speeds.
Take two systems which you can buy for the same price, then compare the speed of YOUR application. This a better approach. The actual clock speed, claimed clock speed, or a number which sounded good at the time is really not important.
BTW: Try your application on Linux and you might find it is fast (or maybe not) It is worth a try.
 

Posts:1,888
Registered: 22/08/01
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 3:47 AM (reply 3 of 12)



 
AMD 2500+ and and Intel P4 2.4 Ghz

If you use a slower cpu then you should expect a slower performance.

You cant just compared CPU speed. You can have a lot of other issues influencing the performance, are the server started with exactly the same JVM parameters ? How fast are the HD's used, how much RAM, how much cache is on the CPU's, how are the servers connected to the internet ,....
 

Posts:5,627
Registered: 3/22/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 4:51 AM (reply 4 of 12)



 
In my experience it's the exact opposite...
Intel machines typically outperform AMD machines which
are otherwise similar.

I agree with wenty. I have had similar experiences with Intel > AMD.
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 6:33 AM (reply 5 of 12)



 
Once read a "comparison" on Toms hardwareguide (which I up to that moment trusted).
They compared a K6-300 with what they called a P2-400 and had the K6 run circles around it.

When studying the supplied pictures and text in detail (rather than just skimming the results what most people do) I discovered that
1) the K6 had been overclocked to 600MHz
2) the "P2" was in fact a Celeron which had not been overclocked at all
3) the hardware used in the AMD machine was highly optimised
4) the hardware in the Intel machine was the slowest they could have taken
5) the testing software was heavily biassed towards AMD
6) different places of the site showed heavy advertising by AMD...
 

Posts:6,487
Registered: 5/5/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 6:38 AM (reply 6 of 12)



 
I agree with wenty. I have had similar experiences with Intel > AMD.
What are you comparing? I find Apples > Oranges.
If you look purely at a per $ basis, a $200 AMD > $200 Intel.
 

Posts:551
Registered: 00-08-30
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jun 11, 2004 10:55 AM (reply 7 of 12)



 
AMD uses 64 bit
here is some article ... http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=20040608\ACQBIZ200406080001BIZWIRE_USPR_____BW6209.htm&symbol=amd&selected=amd&kind=&mode=basics&formtype=&mkttype=&pathname=&page=news
 

Posts:2
Registered: 7/20/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jul 20, 2004 3:24 PM (reply 8 of 12)



 
ok i think alot of the people replying arent getting what this topic is about...
i was experiencing the same thing, java applications are running 10 times slower on my P4 2.6 ghz PC than on my AMD Athlon XP 2600+ PC...

the P4 PC runs everything else faster than the AMD except the java applications...
and both are running the same version of java...

it takes about a minute to load OpenOffice 1.1.2 on the P4 and opens in about 5sec on the AMD.

oh and masuda1967 yes AMD has a 64bit cpu but im sure the topic was talking about just the AMD Athlon XP cpu...
 

Posts:3,534
Registered: 9/30/99
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jul 20, 2004 4:14 PM (reply 9 of 12)



 
I have had similar problems as you have. I find that applicaions developed on my AMD do not run as fast on the Intell based stuff (some times). This is approxiamately same technology slot machines and each purchased around the same time.

Non-MS stuff seems to run better on AMD, it's not looking for all the MS razoo bells and whistles that were optimized for Intel. We've actually installed on some AMD machines we thought were dogs and found that our java app ran suprisingly well.

In other cases I've found my intel runs better--MS runs better on Intel, it's seems to be more optimized for it.

(The previous post is just my opinion based on my observations on various development projects)
 

Posts:4,500
Registered: 17.04.98
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jul 21, 2004 4:34 AM (reply 10 of 12)



 

the P4 PC runs everything else faster than the AMD
except the java applications...
and both are running the same version of java...
That makes me think there's something wrong with the Java application...

it takes about a minute to load OpenOffice 1.1.2 on
the P4 and opens in about 5sec on the AMD.
Try defragmenting the harddisk on the Intel machine...
Application load times (especially for large applications) are 90% caused by harddisk performance not CPU performance.
The other 10% is mainly RAM bus speed, do both machines use identical harddisks and RAM?

If you use a Serial ATA harddisk and 400MHz RAM in the AMD machine and a standard 33MHz IDE harddisk and 100MHz RAM in the Intel machine of course the AMD machine will outperform it.

That's what I was talking about in part when mentioning that Tomshardware tweaked their tests to favour AMD by choosing suboptimal hardware for the Intel machine in the comparison.
 

Posts:346
Registered: 1/15/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jul 21, 2004 6:06 AM (reply 11 of 12)



 
The WinTel partnership didn't get it's name for no reason. Microsoft slow things down while Intel stay in businness sppeding things up again. Most MS software will perform better on an intel chipset than on anything AMD have to offer.
Having worked in Intel I can tell you that AMD's arctitecture isn't that different to Intels( How could it be seeing as they just stole Intels and tweaked it ) and for Java Apps with all else being equal I would expect an AMD to outperform an Intel powered machine.
 

Posts:2
Registered: 7/20/04
Re: Intel slower than AMD??  
Jul 21, 2004 6:01 PM (reply 12 of 12)



 
how about this... instead of posing before you even compared the speed of java on a intel pc vs a amd pc... you accually try it first...

and i bought the same 40GB 7200RPM ATA133 8MB buffer hard drives for both pc's and the P4 was running a fresh installation of windows XP while the AMD is full of ****...

and at first i thought maybe it was running slow on the P4 cause it needed defragment too, so i defraged it and it still starts it up slow...

and im not trying to say AMD is faster than Intel because my P4 runs everything faster than the AMD except for java apps, im just wondering if theres something up with java, making it run faster on my AMD pc?
 
This topic has 12 replies on 1 page.